Sep 10, 2000

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2 big days for Russia
Re: Sep 10, 2000 -- Archive		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/10, 21:24:28

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First, Putin gave a pretty good and comprehensive interview to Larry King (that was not expected by our American friends).

Second, 20-year old Marat Safin completely defeated (6:4, 6:3, 6:3) Pete Sampras. That was *defenetely* unexpected by our American friends.

Now, see, as en example how they "love" us, how they announced [prepodnesli] US open results in "Breaking News" session of AP:

>>U.S. Open: Safin Beats Sampras

NEW YORK (AP) - Grand Slam champion Pete Sampras lost to 20-year-old Marat Safin, 6-4, 6-3, 6-3, at the U.S. Open today. The Russian celebrated by getting down on his knees and kissing the court in Arthur Ashe Stadium. <<

That's it! We even were not able to acces to the full story in contarst to probably very important for Americans informations that "Colombians March for Peace", or "Parents Brawl at Girl Soccer Game". In the last case for example, it is a full size story about "potasovka" between parents in a some high school soccer game happened somewhere in NJ where "no one was seriously injured or arrested"[AP].

I am just wondering what would have happened if a 20-year AMERICAN kid had beaten say, Boris Bekker in Wimbledon. What a miserabilty of infamous "free and objective media".

But anyway, we did it!

RUSSO

--modified by RUSSO at Sun, Sep 10, 2000, 21:26:18

--modified by RUSSO at Sun, Sep 10, 2000, 22:18:15

Modified by at Sun, Sep 10, 2000, 22:18:16

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Breaking News always is only a sentence, silly
Re: 2 big days for Russia -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Carol ^Ž
2000/09/11, 07:35:58

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Try this one: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/2000/us_open/news/2000/09/10/open_sunday/

As to the Putin interview. As Zh said: 'What did you expect from a career KGB person' He did do a good job, said all the right things. Well, except maybe that bit about the automatic machine thumping "SOS Water" on the hull of the Kursk.

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Not really
Re: Breaking News always is only a sentence, silly -- Carol		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/11, 12:08:31

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I specifically compared that one paragraph with a full size (4 -5 times longer) breaking news about that quarell between parents during high school soccer game somewhere in NJ. It was much far from what you call as "always a sentence", silly.

RUSSO

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do you have the link?
Re: 2 big days for Russia -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Michelle ^Ž
2000/09/10, 22:41:07

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Russo, do you remember where in NJ those soccer mom's had their brawl? If you still have the link, please post it because I would like to read more about it.

Thanks,

Michelle ;-)

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I believe that were soccer dads.
Re: do you have the link? -- Michelle		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/11, 12:27:35

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Actually I mentined two very "American thoughts":

1. Only girls play real soccer in this country.

2. Only moms are visting games.

In fact I enjoy Sundays when my senior is playing for a SDSU team. One day, I almost kicked some Mexican butt because that dad started joking about my son while his one was playing much worse, probably artistic, but very ineffective. Audience liked his tricks, but he did not score a goal in the first half, so our coach substituted him with my "rookie" running machine who did not "perform" but palyed rational, cool and athletic European style (that was essentially this Mex's comment about). My son finally scored three goals and assisted one, and from loosing 0:2 in the first half, we turned the victory 5:4. That father instead of getting happy for the team's victory, started abusing again, this time me directly. I responded, and only coach's intrusion saved this idiot's neck. And my green card application probably..

But sorry, I participated in so many soccer/hockey after (or during) the game "razborki" that I did not play any attention to this info, just only noticing how much space in the "Breaking News" was given to this episode comparing to the really breaking news about Safin's levelling the Leviathan (sp??).

RUSSO

Actually, ball games and hocckey are the second adrenaline rush stuff for me after.. well.. I do not want to participate in the first one again, I spent a lot already.

RUSSO

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I was just being silly
Re: I believe that were soccer dads. -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Michelle ^Ž
2000/09/12, 06:52:33

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Hi Russo,

That's okay that you didn't remember the information from the article because I wasn't really interested in it - I was just trying to be funny. But, obviously, making jokes isn't one of my better skills. :-)

I didn't realize that your oldest was already at SDSU. For some reason, I thought your kids were still too young for college. What has he decided to study - is he going to follow in your footsteps or do something different? My daughter wants to be an author, but at 11, she still has plenty of time to think about future career choices.

Michelle

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He is
Re: I was just being silly -- Michelle		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/12, 20:48:07

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in "Buisiness and Computer".

He wanted to be an actuary (scored top 2% in Math in SAT). Once I mentioned Russians have special affection to the "Theory of Probability and Statistics" - all our Lyapunov, Chebyshev, Smirnov, Kolmogorov, Markov liked "Russain roulette" (joking) and are pretty known here also.

Then we realized it is difficult to find a job for an actuary - not so many big insurance companies are around. We decided that he would take basic on the computers, than we'd see what to do. I envision him working in Genomics, Proteomics, Bioinformatics or Computer Drug Discovery (probably for my own company -;), but his Biology is not far from my English typing ;-<. We'll see.

RUSSO

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Moscow Times says the Putin Vote was rigged
Re: Sep 10, 2000 -- Archive		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Carol ^Ž
2000/09/10, 19:40:09

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http://www.moscowtimes.ru/09-Sep-2000/stories/story58.html

and more here: http://www.moscowtimes.ru/09-Sep-2000/todays_issue.htm#Arts__amp__Features

sumarized here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/World/Russia/2000-09/russian110900.shtml

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Western Media Will Be Shown Their Proper Place in Russia
Re: Moscow Times says the Putin Vote was rigged -- Carol		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: toyman ^Ž
2000/09/13, 06:57:44

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The Doctrine of Information Security of the Russian Federation, approved by President Vladimir Putin, envisages "defining more exactly" the status of foreign news agencies, mass media and journalists, as well as that of investors in cases when foreign investments are called for in developing the information infrastructure of Russia. As Anatoly Streltsov, Deputy Head of the Department for Information Security of the Staff of the Russian Federation Security Council, told journalists, it is a question, in particular, of creating equal conditions for foreign and Russian mass media on the territory of the country. Answering questions from reporters, Mr. Streltsov also expressed the opinion that "the Law on the Media must change."

Mr. Streltsov is one of the chief ideologists of the Doctrine of Information Security of Russia. He took an active part in developing the Concept of the same name. Within the Department headed by him, there exists a very clear understanding that, in present-day conditions, a country lacking national, truly independent, media swiftly loses its independence and becomes an information satellite of third countries. Therefore the Russian nationwide media must enjoy equal rights with Western corporations, the latter being greatly superior to the Russian resources in terms of their organizational and financial capabilities. It is no secret that Russian media controlled by foreign capital as often as not take part in propaganda campaigns that infringe upon the interests of the Russian State. Therefore "defining more exactly" the status of foreigners on the Russian media market will inevitably entail certain restrictions and toughening of control over them, as well as a certain kind of protectionism for the Russian media.

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Welcome back to GULAG's era the ultimate dream of Russian slaves!

Re: Western Media Will Be Shown Their Proper Place in Russia -- toyman Top of Thread Archive

Posted by: Incognito ^Ž
2000/09/13, 11:08:30

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And this makes you happy?
Re: Western Media Will Be Shown Their Proper Place in Russia -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Carol ^Ž
2000/09/13, 08:34:34

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The idea of even more government control of what you are allowed to hear?

...and what about this idea that anything thing you don't like hearing is the result of some evil plot to smear Russia--you're exactly where a currupt state would want you, ready only to believe what makes them sound good. Getting angy at outsiders for everything reported that makes them sound bad. You are the perfect citizen.

Now, as to the Moscow Times article. Either 1.3 million voters showed up overnight or they didn't. That should be easy to prove. If any of that happened, you should be thankful for anyone pointing it out to you--whether it has foreign origins or not.

Keep worrying about 'the Russian State' but try to keep in mind how little the Russian State seems to worry about it's people. They've never done much in the past to protect you, they don't seem to be doing much now. I would recommend the Russian people to start asking the same questions of the states that your so called 'foreign capital controlled Russian media'--and start demanding answers.

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yes, it does
Re: And this makes you happy? -- Carol		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/13, 11:17:22

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How would Americans react if CNN, NBC, and ABS simultaneously went to Russian hands? Protectionism is a natural policy for many countries, while policy of "open doors" very often happens to be one way traffic for American Government expansionism, including ideological agression which often precludes military invasion.

Anyway, it is better if Russian media belong to Russain citizens than to Israeli (Berezovski) or "Hibraltar" (Gusinski) moguls. That is not a a plant for production of condoms, you know..

RUSSO

--modified by RUSSO at Wed, Sep 13, 2000, 11:18:30

Modified by at Wed, Sep 13, 2000, 11:18:31

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Importatnt clarification
Re: yes, it does -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/13, 11:30:16

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did I say it must belong to Government? Any Governemnt has own stations and press (probably except USA, but in foreign politics all "free media" are 100% pro-Government). At the same time, diversity of mass media is a good thing. However, if 90% of them skewed to one particular point of view (anti-Govewnment and anti-Russian because 85% ethnic Russians support Putin), it is not good.

I think, installation of rules against liberalistic/foreign monopoly in Russian mass media is a temporary, but necessary step.

RUSSO

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You think it is temporary...

Re: Importatnt clarification -- RUSSO Top of Thread Archive

Posted by: Carol ^Ž
2000/09/13, 12:16:01

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...I have my doubts

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I remember one song by B.Springsteen
Re: Importatnt clarification -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: toyman ^Ž
2000/09/13, 11:42:23

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where it says something like: "......57 channels and nothing to watch...." i.e. I mean that the US citizen has the opportunity to choose what ever he like and want to watch,- the Russian citizens are lack of it, the majority of Russians (esp. in a country side) can watch only 3-4 channels where 2 of them are spewing crap, lies and hatred against Russia.

That's very important. We should protect our air from anti-Russian campaighn and hysteria.

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You shouldn't protect your people from anything...
Re: I remember one song by B.Springsteen -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Carol ^Ž
2000/09/13, 12:29:23

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Let individuals protect themselves--that's what adults are supposed to be allowed to do. If no one watches the crap being spewed, then the stations will change their tactics. If everyone is watching, maybe it is because what they are saying interests them. I will remind you that because of the media focus on the Kursk disaster, the families of the Kursk are going to get some true assistance. If there were no media scrutiny, it would have been $150 per family.

The Russian government has a tendancy to treat their populous like small children that need protection from the big bad outside world. Tell them that you've already grown up, thank you.

I'm still at a loss why you are rushing to give up your rights for the sake of the state. Give me one time in the history of Russia when the state has looked out for the interests of its populous. During the tsars time 95% of the population were literally enslaved. During the Communist period? They just said they were, you've got enough evidence of the opposite. Now? How many of your politicians are living only on the income legally provided to them?

Why are you working so hard to protect them, they've never worked to protect you?

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I don't need "concern" yankz anymore. I grew up. Thank you
Re: You shouldn't protect your people from anything... -- Carol		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: toyman ^Ž
2000/09/13, 13:16:32

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I believe that the biggest lie/provocation was the (un)decision to dissolve NATO. Since neither Bush, nor Gore seem to be presidents with a global prospective, so NATO will always exist and SPREAD TO THE EAST. And Russia is its natural enemy. The first step in the "peaceful" initiatives following the fall of the Soviet Union should have been the elimination of NATO. If it exists, it'll always be Russia's enemy, which sooner or later will end up in multiple conflicts. I live in the Russia and have my own eyes and mind. I watch "free western channels" and see lies your media spreads on Russia every day. The problem is: those lies are everywhere, and this brainwashing is too overwhelming: it's in the movies (even as big as Spielberg's); in the everyday's news... well, if it isn't Serbia, then it would be something else.

[edited - see FAQ] McDonalds, Cola and yankee way of thinking.

Just tell me one thing: "What gonna stop "concerned" yanks from prying their noses into not their affairs???". I bet 10 more KURSK submarines. Right? ...It's not my business, so stay away from Russian internal affairs. How could you speak about "human rights and freedoms" while you violate it around the world?

--modified by admin at Sat, Sep 16, 2000, 07:39:53

Modified by at Sat, Sep 16, 2000, 07:40:07

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What a waste!
Re: I don't need "concern" yankz anymore. I grew up. Thank you -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: kate ^Ž
2000/09/14, 11:12:47

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Do you really think that spitting your saliva on this Forum will change anything? Do you think Putin and his government really cares what you think? Do you think Carol/E.T./James can do something to change US/Russian relations? What a waste of effort. You want results? Than let me see you on Russian TV (if it allows you to buy time) and tell everybody what you want Russian/US government to do. Otherwise all this babble is a total waste. Well, very soon we will get rid of toyman because "ne roven chas" Internet will be prohibited in Russia as privacy of it has just been. BTW, when all Russian people can hardly afford to have e-mail, how do you stay on the Internet for so long? I bet you do not live like most Russians. I bet you do not have a shortage of money to buy bare necessities. Well, when you do live like an average Russian than you can voice their opinion. So far you are just a hooligan who trashes Virtual Reality, who has nothing; no heart no soul and not even a real name!

I know Russian people and keep in contact with them every day. They do not like what Russia is now. They do not feel that where Russia is has anything to do with somebody else doing it to Russia. They are not dumb . They know that nobody else but poor management of Russia brought it to where it is now.

You always tell me that I am too young, well at least I am not deaf and blind. If you think that it is good for people to live in Russia compared to how they live in the US than how will you explain Russo and him being here? He doesn't like US. I bet he would be glad to leave this place ASAP and go live in Russia but he can not! Why? Because he can not support his family in Russia the way he can here. His family lives better here! They have a nice house and good food and clean air (even though they are in close proximity to LA :o))

Why do you think Russian girls marry Swedes, Finns, Americans, French, etc. I bet I know your answer. "They are all traitors",- you would say. Since you have no common sense what-so-ever I don't expect anything rational from you. People leave Russia every day looking for better conditions whether it is political or financial. Doesn't it tell you that it is not good for people to live in Russia? Probably not because you are one of the rich Russians who can afford hanging on the Internet all this time and TV channels from abroad. Look around. People in Russia do not have all of this. They are poor and very tired of being surrounded by idiots and thieves who run Russia.

Yes, US has many flaws but people live better here. They work hard and they do not care if what they do is similar to a Russian/Canadian/English way. They just live and work and raise children and do not care if you are spitting saliva here on this Forum. They are strong because they live in a country where their social rights are protected. You live in a country where you can be taken away any time (without any warrant) and destroyed in prison without ever letting your relatives know what happened to you. "Not possible", - you say. Really? I remember that it was and "Can leopard change its spots?"

I can give you many more examples but I have wasted my time on you enough today.

BTW I think you yell like this only because you have a back up plan! If something happens and they come to take you away for talking to Americans on the Internet, you can always claim that you are a citizen of Sweden and demand a Consular General of Sweden to protect you. Other Russian people (in general) do not have privileges like this so close you dirty mouth and talk to Russian people before voicing your opinion for theirs!

Kate (little girl from US who loves Russian people and thinks that they do not deserve living like they do now)

--modified by kate at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 11:16:20

--modified by kate at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 11:18:48

--modified by kate at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 11:22:07

Modified by at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 11:22:25

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I'm splashed with sweet Wrigley's chewing-gum saliva. WHATTA SMELL!
Re: What a waste! -- kate		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: toyman ^Ž
2000/09/14, 13:15:03

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No 1:

Sweden is much more clean and tidy place than US, the food here is wonderful. I keep the Swdish citizenship only because it help me to save my money not paying for visas.

No 2:

There are 13 mln Internet USERS! (about 10% of population) in Russia

No 3:

I told before how US gave me the warm welcome,- during the first days of staying I was ripped off, my friend got a bullet in his back, I got the plastic bag on my head and baseball bat serve to my head.

No 4:

Do you have an idea of what is the "soul balance"? Do you have the same in US? If yes, so answer me:

-what the hell the immigrants like you are wasting day by day, night by night in a Russian speaking forums?

-why do you are preaching to us instead of "work hard and raise children"?

No 4:

I don't name anyone a traitors (even a girls who got merried in far 70-80-th to the sons of African tribe tains and moved to Africa), you are just kinda a lozers, you "voted your stomachs" for USA and better life, but the same time you became kinda the robots-calculators, who live from a short-term to long-term credits ALWAYS keeping in mind the threat of overcoming.

And now about the "runaway to the wealth" girls. I had an relation experience with some of Russian girls in Sweden. Many of them always tried to escape from Swedish husbands for a while and have some fun time (and sometimes sex) with the Russian country fellows. You may say that Russian girls don't do the same in US...May be, may be. But to compare to US ludicrous feminists,- the Swedish women are 100% more independent. Do you know why? Because they don't need to prove their independence every day cause they are REALLY independent. After a 5-6 staying with the Swed husbands they usually say "Good-bye" to them and start the new unlimited in mind and chances new life. Sweds men are slow and girls use them as the "midnight express" to the West. Moreover I know very well what Russian immigrant girls are doing in Russia when the come here alone to visit relatives and "say hello to the old friends".

You can ashame your relatives who came to visit you in US by switching the buttoms of a household equipment, you can brag about your clothes and expensive jewellery trinkets, you can explain them and take priority of Buick over Lada. But you'll never be happy for 100%. I saw a lot of immigrants and I caught their lack-lustre eye when we were talking about Russia and I understand it.

The REAL LIFE IS HERE! And thanx to God I realized it when I was living in a rich, luxury, but not mine Sweden. It was so close to my home, so may be it helped me to make the right decision.

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Get ahold of yourself
Re: I'm splashed with sweet Wrigley's chewing-gum saliva. WHATTA SMELL! -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: kate ^Ž
2000/09/14, 14:53:30

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"But you'll never be happy for 100%."

This is a true statement for you and me. Nothing more. We can not even say that it is true for every Russian (or of Russian origin) person on this Forum.

However this doesn't prove that life is better for people in Russian than in US.

!You! can never be 100% happy abroad and !I! can not (unfortunately) but I know lots and lots of Russians/Ukrainians/Belorussians who disagree with this statement. They say things like: "I would not send my dog to live in Russia"; "I love it here so much I can not tell you how happy I am to be here"; "Thank God I was able to leave Russia. It is so bad to live there and when I call my friends there, they say that nothing is getting better" and so on. Your constant bragging about how you made the right choice is only your way of trying to prove it to yourself. You need a constant reminder for yourself that you made a right choice because you are not so sure yourself. You say it just to convince yourself. So be it but do not speak for all other people. You are you and they are them. You like your choice, they like theirs. Is it that hard to understand?

You say I am too young but how come you (according to you a "mature" person) do not understand that tastes differ and life stories differ. I have known Americans who fell in love with Russia after visiting it and those who ran away like as if they had just found out what "hell" was. You had a bad experience in the US. It proves nothing. You were in a wrong place at the wrong time. That's all. This could happen to you in any other place. Right there on Nevsky even. Would you hate Russians and Russia than? Must I hate Russia for killing my cousin in the Red Army when he was about 20 years old only and was about to become a dembel' when "bronetransporter" smashed him? I was only 16 years old myself than. It was a terrible loss because we grew up together and he was more like a brother to me than a cousin. I saw how they brought the coffin with his dead body and there was a little tear that dried under his eye (probably from pain that he experienced for that flash of a moment before death) and I saw how they buried him and Russian soldiers made 10 shots in the air to honor him. I was not even 18 when this happened so do I hate Russia now?!!!!!!! It killed my cousin! And BTW even now we have not been told what really happened to him and how come he was ran over by that armored machine.

Russia also killed my grandfather. He dyed due to a bad medical service. He only had a minor problem but there was no medicine/equipment necessary to operate on him and I know that he would have still been alive if we lived in the US at that time. Do I hate Russia for him too?!!!!!!!!!! I can go further. My grandmother couldn't live without my grandfather and in several years her grief took over her and she dyed. I can say that Russia took away my dearest people! Do I say this? Do I hate Russia now?

Chto ty nesjesh' kakuju-to khernju? How can you be so ignorant as to blame a country for what happened to you due to your own ways. Nobody made you come to the US and nobody sent you to a bad place where bad people were. You came yourself and you met bad people. Are you telling me that they do not kill anybody in Russia? My neighbor in Russia went to work one day. It was early morning. He was caught near his podjezd and beat up so badly that still now he uses crutches and his leg is in some kind of bandage. So does he hate Russia now?!!!!

My friend was coming back home one evening. He was only 19. I was still living in Russia at that time. They caught him and stabbed with a knife. He dyed from bleeding to death because it was late and nobody would come to help him when he was laying there dyeing.

I am so tired of hearing a bunch of immature ignorant babble from you. Bad things happen in life. They do. It is not the fault of any country. It is the fault of people. One can not blame an entire country of being evil just because one had a bad experience in this country. Don't you see how ignorant it is? Don't you see that you are wrong?

Ref. your Swedish citizenship, I don't care why you still have it. You do. This is a fact and you can not deny it and this gives you a back up plan. You can leave Russia when they come for you and you will because you will be saving you "shkuru".

Ref. Internet usage, please don't throw numbers at me. Russia has a population of over 148 million. What is your 13 mln? Let's see the statistics for the US and Internet users. Carol is good at that. Please help me out here Carol.

Plus where do you get your statistics? Perhaps based on Moscow and SP. Have you ever been to places like Far East, Amurskaja oblast, etc? People do not have electricity there most of the time, why talk about Internet? You live in a shell. You are wealthy and screw the rest! I am OK and I don't care what others think as long as I have all of my toys.

So to put it in a nutshell if you were not so hardheaded you could have learned something here but you are too stubborn to admit that you can be wrong. Do you call it "mature"? I don't.

Kate. (a person with a real name at least)

--modified by kate at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 14:55:27

--modified by kate at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 14:56:28

Modified by at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 14:56:31

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What's up?
Re: Get ahold of yourself -- kate		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: toyman ^Ž
2000/09/14, 15:46:06

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Does the true face of Russian girls abroad has cut to the quick? KUDA OSTAPA PONESLO??? "Khernya", "Shkura"???? A to smotri detka, y menya ochen' bogatyi opyt obshenia "po-matushke", pokrasneesh za monitorom.

I remember the times when I was studying together with Americans in Leningrad, I remember how clouds of girls and "majory" (Moscow "utigi" clones)were running about them. They told to yanks a lot of "unbelievable stories" about their "terrible fate" in USSR, bluntly speaking they lied a lot. For what reason? Only for one,- SEND ME THE INVETATION TO USA! And they were ready to lie more and more if it would be nesessary for coming to as Promised Land. Seems it's your circle of acquaintance.

I've some relatives native born Sweds, they told me 10 years ago: "People, you are dumbs! You speaking about the "kolbasa troubles" which have to occupy the last place in a western life-race. We also have a lot of problems, but ANOTHER TYPE of problems". The time has changed and you changed too, now you lie about "freedoms", "modern political repressions".

I've crossed the country 3 or 4 times in both ways (last time this winter) And you are not a person who is able to explain me anything on that. I know the life from inside.

Lets stop the airy talks about my second "shkura" citizenship. Do you know how much does the visit to US Consulate cost??? 45 phakin US Dollars! Just to get INSIDE! You don't want to know how much I've spent money on my girlfriend for her unavailing visits to that phakin degrading interviews. If you don't want to know how "free western world" humble RF citizens so SHUT UP on that case.

I travel a lot on business and I don't want to stay in a lines, drawing a number on my hand like during the "kolbasa times".

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Sharikov
Re: What's up? -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: kate ^Ž
2000/09/14, 16:47:48

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Sharikov ty est, im ty i pomrjesh. Now go head....start barking. Dumb creature with no brains. You just said it yourself that people were doing everything, telling lies just to leave Russia. Do you really think that if it is good for people to live in a country they would do this?

And one more time, I do not care why you have Swedish citizenship. You do and you can leave Russia when you need to so you have a back up plan and other people (true Russian people) do not have such an option. As far as I am concerned you are a situation abuser and this has nothing to do with loving Russia, choosing Russia or anything noble like this. You couldn't live anywhere except Russian because everywhere else you are nothing. In Russia you have more than other Russian people and you can feel like a king. I have seen people like you. You only feel superior in your little swamp. In real world you are just a little toad.

Your dual citizenship. How does it differ you from any Jew who has Russian and Israeli citizenship? As far as I am concerned there is no difference! You can jump and yell and this will accomplish nothing. For the people here you are nothing. Just a general sleazoid.

Kate.

--modified by kate at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 17:17:07

Modified by at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 17:17:10

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Please ask your government to stop accepting our billions in aide...
Re: I don't need "concern" yankz anymore. I grew up. Thank you -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Carol ^Ž
2000/09/13, 13:27:06

Author Profile

and give us back the equipment and documents we've given you as well.

If you don't want us to notice your affairs, better put back the curtain, and make it through your crisis on your own.

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I do it EVERYDAY!
Re: Please ask your government to stop accepting our billions in aide... -- Carol		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: toyman ^Ž
2000/09/13, 13:59:54

Author Profile

May be that's the reason why I'm here. Do you really consider those billions as the "AID" together with the imposted yank "tutor-guides"-financial experts (Russia paid 500K a year to each of them) and their "maintenance manual" how and where to spent that "AID"!?! If YES, so I've nothing to discuss with you anything anymore on that issue. You should educate yourself a little.

So-called "aid" is the greatest provocation against Russia after the CCCP fall. The IMF/London/Paris club's "credit timber-hitch" has been thrown over the Russian head very cunningly and adroitly. Yankz like to do sh!t under the philanthropic mask and ,of course, with keeping the wide (fake as usual) smile. WHATTA GREAT CHARITY PERFORMANCE! Russians have rised a bait and it serves us right,- next time we'll be much more clever.

And what those "equipment and documents" have been GIVEN to us? Does all Americans think the same? Does they know where the "gratuitous cheese" is laying about?

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Putin would disagree with you
Re: I do it EVERYDAY! -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Olga ^Ž
2000/09/13, 16:16:25

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At least during his interview with Larry King he showed interest in the foreign participation and especially American investors in Russia. Now would you call him a hypocritical?

Olga

--modified by Olga at Wed, Sep 13, 2000, 16:27:49

Modified by at Wed, Sep 13, 2000, 16:27:57

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Investments- yes, "help"- ?
Re: Putin would disagree with you -- Olga		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/13, 17:35:35

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I don't think Putin ever mentioned finacial help. His goal is to eliminate this addiction gaidars and izhe s nimi brought to our country.

RUSSO

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Write to me and I will tell you how our Corporation "invested" in Russia...

Re: Investments- yes, "help"- ? -- RUSSO Top of Thread Archive

Posted by: kate ^Ž
2000/09/14, 13:10:53

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My e-mail is vcc_ga@hotmail.com

Kate.

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I am not talking about "chicken legs" either
Re: Investments- yes, "help"- ? -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Olga ^Ž
2000/09/13, 17:54:20

Author Profile

The investments should be consider as the great help as well. It is like "blood infusion" for the economy. In order to be able to produce new "blood cells" by itself, Russian economy needs some "boost" and it hardly would survive without it. So "ne plui v kolodez..."...

Olga

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well.. about a well
Re: I am not talking about "chicken legs" either -- Olga		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/13, 18:12:18

Author Profile

a nikto i ne pliujot. Investements of bussiness people in any economy is a good thing, Peter the Great and other Russian reformers alwyas supported that. But none of them allowed to put noses of foreign politicians in Russian internal affairs, it's a different story. And who did (like Czarina Anna), never not lasted long. Remember, after missioners come soldiers. Ones they capture the sole, they'll capture the body.

RUSSO

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Then explain this.
Re: well.. about a well -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Olga ^Ž
2000/09/14, 01:23:07

Author Profile

As I understand the situation, if I decide to put my money in some else economy, I expect something out of it. The other side is also interested in my money due to their financial needs. So we have mutual interests. Then I see that the other side policy is hurting itself in the way that it will backfire onto our mutual interests (internal affairs always affect economy, right?). Naturally I would call up the meeting and address my concerns, because it hurts my interests that I originally had as an investor. Following your logic, Russo, it looks like I have to put down MY money and step aside watching how they would go down to drain. Then the question comes, why should anyone be interested in being used financially and abused verbally? You are comparing to Peter the Great time, but you forget that Peter even used foreign advisers basically for anything. They did not stop him from what he intended to do, but they were able to express an opinion, and who knows may be he listened sometimes. Moreover (and this is the most important thing) he was GREAT indeed and I do not see that Russia at THIS moment has someone like him at the wheel. All these arguments about the *interference* look to me like my 4 years old insist that everything should be her way and no other way around. It happens when the person or the system are not mature enough to LISTEN, but have only ambitions.

What do you think about it?

Olga

--modified by Olga at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 01:24:40

Modified by at Thu, Sep 14, 2000, 01:24:49

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If you were a businessman
Re: Then explain this. -- Olga		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/14, 13:47:49

Author Profile

what whould you rather deal with:

1. with a country where 20 more parties are jaust talking, talknig talking, where a country in a spin of corruption, no satble laws are issued for foreigner investors, crime on the streets

2. with a strong Government and clear law that protects foreign investors, citizens obey the law, crime on the streets is low so you and your representatives can walk at night to any bar they want.

Honestly, thinking as a businessman aside all this liberalistic balooney, what model would you prefer? Would you care if they cracked some the most "gorlastyj" idiots who is trying to agiatate people instead of some constructive input. I think, if you WERE a BUSINESSMAN, you'd prefer Pinochet or a South Korean Kim Bla Bla to some very democratic "boltuny".

And busnessmen do. I spoke with many.

Another thing, how it works. Governement DOES NOT need money for itself, but building new facotry and developng new terchnologies, it makes national economy strong, infracstructure improves, people get jobs, etc. And Governemnt gets more taxes so it can take care of Army, education, etc. And no James or Scott will complain that USA Governmrnt uses their taxes for improving Russain Strategic Forces (though as Michelle suggested, they can think that their taxes go to what they like, while mine or many Russian immigrants who, as you can see at the top of taxpayer ladder, pay taxes to support Russia)

RUSSO

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business ethics?
Re: If you were a businessman -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: billy ^Ž
2000/09/14, 16:39:36

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Most business men (not corporate, they are bigger than mere countries) I know who have set up in Russia have already recovered considerably more than they have laid out.

They also have not done much for Russian people except some officials who are on the take.

However this happens every were. If you want to build a factory in Scotland you need planning permision, this can cost unoficialy.

Business men are business men , they are out to make money. Any service they provide is incidental and coruption and anarchy does not bother them.

Were do all the large Western corporations set up their factories now. Cheap labor, no health and safety laws, no enviromental laws, no threats of litigation. Any country that can provide all or any of these is a favourite despite the fact it may be corrupt or violent.

P.S

If there is a threat of violance or terrorism they just get the Army to protect them. Look at BP in Columbia or oil operations in Africa!!

Billy.

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I exactly saying did not get exactly what you're saying
Re: business ethics? -- billy		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: RUSSO ^Ž
2000/09/15, 19:08:34

Author Profile

I mean, whether your statement was supporting mine or not.

What I was saying is that for the majority of businessmen, a strong Government that guarantees foreign investors is much more importnat that other irrelevant to business things. If they want to drink a beer, they just won't go to "bad areas". Stability and guranteed profit is the core issue of any business, they will not give a damn for what is going on here unless are heavily pushed by liberals in own country. International monopolies are even less vulnerable from this standpoint.

Ergo, if Putin cracks all those oligarches, all these turmoil-making idiots, mafia, local burocrats, ethnic unrest, etc, this will attract private capital regardless all those freaking liberals from UN Human Rights Watch, Amnisty International, etc.

RUSSO

--modified by RUSSO at Fri, Sep 15, 2000, 19:12:44

Modified by at Fri, Sep 15, 2000, 19:12:50

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ROCE
Re: I exactly saying did not get exactly what you're saying -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: billy ^Ž
2000/09/15, 19:31:14

Author Profile

I think is one of the main factors.

What I was saying is that large corporations will set up anywere were there is a good chance of capital return no matter the regime.

Take Sakhalin island. It is a massive oil find but only the multi-nationals have the finance/technology to exploit it. Through favourable production sharing agreements they are guarenteed good returns. Despite recenr Russian govt. problems the investment has soared. One large US independemt has had to sell to Royal Dutch because the capital required is to much for them. It inevitably leads to the construction of more oil platforms, refinary/LPG terminal and pipelines to Japan. All this in an earthquake/typhoon region. The investment is phenonimal and it is increasing. The large multi-nationals know they can hold more power than countries (except 1973/74 when Quaddaffi shot them to pieces).

Look at all the multi-nationals who open up sportswear factories, refineries etc in the third world, in some of the most unstable and corrupt countries there is. Cheap labour, exploitation, sometimes child labour. No health and safety/enviromental costs, no unions, no pensions the attractions far outway the risks.

Look at the performance of large corporations in poor unstable countries in South America /Africa. Again no enviromental, health and safety law means they can leave the place a mess, kill and maim as they please and with no expensive litigation.

Protection is provided by paid for governments. BP in Columbia have a terrible civil rights record. They are responsable ,indirectly, for the imprisonment and killing of trade union officials who tried to get a fair dear for poor workers, I know this because one stayed with us whilst in exile, or for farmers who BP were having the Army claim their land. Nike, Texaco, Bopal they are all at it. I don't know but it was probably the primary reason for large US investment in Mexico but I don't know about this one.

What I am saying is the only thing looked at by big business is the figures.

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Which ones?
Re: business ethics? -- billy		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Carol ^Ž
2000/09/14, 19:32:16

Author Profile

None of the Joint Ventures I ever worked on worked out(should that have told me something, hmmmmm) Most of the Western companies and investors lost their shirts in 1998 (which ultimately was good for Russian companies) Who have you met that has done so well? I am interested.

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I hope you REALLY are interested and not
Re: Which ones? -- Carol		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: billy ^Ž
2000/09/15, 16:59:31

Author Profile

just trying to make a fool of me by calling my bluff!!

You probably worked on big massive projects but I was really on about smaller entraprawners such as Strathisla Fish Processers (local) who have been exporting salmon to Russia for quite some time, Boyd International (from Buckie), JHP, AMEC process& energy (mainly eastern Russian Fed), there are a lot of firms in Aberdeen (mostly HVAC and Service industry) I can track them down if you want (apparently HVAC and air conditioning was a licence to print money). Of the bigger companies that are going strong are BP and Shell (Eastern Russia again) Daiwoo car manufacturers and I also think 2 major British confectioners are over there and are currently expanding.

The Scottish fishing industry continue to make money from the Russian fishing industry, although that one has suffered through lack of Russian investment.

Hope your fine and if you knew the trouble I have to go to to post I'm sure you would let me settle back in.

Billy.

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I've missed you...
Re: I hope you REALLY are interested and not -- billy		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Carol ^Ž
2000/09/15, 17:34:41

Author Profile

and I was interested, though kind of hoping to call your bluff.

Tell us how you are. I'm always really pleased to see you are online.

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Aw Shucks!
Re: I've missed you... -- Carol		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: billy ^Ž
2000/09/15, 19:02:54

Author Profile

I'm good and bad.

GOOD: All the children are now in some sort of education kind of thing so a bit more less hectic at home (although you always miss them). Looking forward to our Florida trip next month (got visa no problem!). And I can post again here.

BAD: Good chance of getting downsized at the end of the year (but I hate it here anyway so chance to go abroad coming). British people, as usual, acting as total eejits just know with the alleged fuel crisis.

Fuel Crisis:

When the minors went on strike or the poorer people held demonstrations against the pole tax all the media and middle classes condemed them as communist led rabble.

FARMERS (most rightwing person you get here) and transpot companies (who also get their fuel VAT free) blockade all the refinaries complaining about the price of fuel and blaming it solely on govt. and they represent the peoples protest. What do the people do. All rush out and stockpile petrol to take their children 200 yards to school for the duration and by up all the food in the shops, playing right into the oil company hands (who were laughing because they planned another price increase and this would allow them to get up to capacity, empty there cheaper smaller competitors tanks and score points against the govt.who they don't like). What do the police do, nothing, just watch. If that was a trade union organised event the police and army would be wading in, the oil companies would have the unions in court etc, etc.

Of the last 20p rise in fuel only 2p has been in govt. taxes.

I am seething, the British narod are spoilt soft b******s and the sad thing is the poor went along with the plenty.

but apart from that I am fine.

Except for a slight cold.

Billy.

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Be thankful for what you have
Re: I do it EVERYDAY! -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: James ^Ž
2000/09/13, 14:11:35

Author Profile

Toyman,

As I've told you before, you're not to blame for Russia's current wounds. I sense that there is much bitterness within you; I also sense a feeling of pain for your nation's current difficulty.

Toyman, I don't know you personally; and, I don't know your thoughts. Maybe you feel that everything's falling apart over there. But Toyman, you have a lot left. You have your family, and you have have the Creator's gift.

You do matter Toyman. You're made in God's image. Don't let people get to you, whenever they gloat. Give thanks for what you have, for you do have alot to be thankful for. You have your whole future ahead of you; a future that will someday make evident to you the reason for today's current difficulties.

Toyman, you're welcome to e-mail me anytime you want to converse. You do have a friend, if you want one.

James

--modified by James at Wed, Sep 13, 2000, 14:13:24

Modified by at Wed, Sep 13, 2000, 14:13:29

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Normal way and "Rushkin" way...
Re: I remember one song by B.Springsteen -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Incognito ^Ž
2000/09/13, 12:06:04

Author Profile

Normal way of protecting freedom of information is to create more channels and more freedom for mass media. "Rushkin" way is to shut down those exposing the truth by labeling them as anti-government, anti-patriotic, anti-Russian and so on and creating "ministry of truth". That makes all the difference between normal way and Rushka that always going its own may (up to its throat in sh!t). So eat your sh!t! Enjoy it! A lot more sh!t is on its way! Just get ready!

--modified by Incognito at Wed, Sep 13, 2000, 12:06:55

Modified by at Wed, Sep 13, 2000, 12:06:58

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Why bother?
Re: And this makes you happy? -- Carol		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Incognito ^Ž
2000/09/13, 11:16:34

Author Profile

Who are you trying to talk to? He won't understand, simply incapable! The Stalin's era of mass murders, starvation and pseudo-superiority of Rushka is the dream for such mental slaves. And very unfortunate but most Russians are mental slaves with the level of education and intellect next to Mexicans.

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For you, something to learn
Re: Why bother? -- Incognito		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: toyman ^Ž
2000/09/13, 11:24:19

Author Profile

edited - see FAQ

http://www.geocities.com/russianfriends/faq.html

--modified by admin at Sat, Sep 16, 2000, 07:47:30

Modified by at Sat, Sep 16, 2000, 07:47:34

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Where are the others?
Re: For you, something to learn -- toyman		Top of Thread	Archive

Posted by: Olga ^Ž
2000/09/13, 18:34:57

Author Profile

Albert Einstein - the greatest scientist ever lived

Mstislav Rostropovich - one of the greatest musicians still alive.

Film director Izenstein.

Great actor and a very good person Mihoels.

Mark Shagal - great artist.

Mihail Zvanetsky, Arkady Raikin, Maya Plisetskaya (ballet dancer).

I could continue this list of people, but why bother? The only word "Jewish" makes you boil with hate. You are so happy to find all these "pearls" collected by other "researchers". Moreover, your views are "easy catch" and very popular among many people.

BTW, if not for that Stalin's scientist Landau and those Rosenberg couple

You think it is temporary...
Re: Importatnt clarification -- RUSSO		Top of Thread	Archive