"Is There no Help for the Widow's Son"

"Is There no Help for the Widow's Son"
			Archive

Posted by: 2112 ^Ž
07/02/2003, 23:44:27

Author Profile Mail author

A few weeks ago I posted a question regarding the connection between the legend of Enoch (as contained in the 1802 edition of Thomas S. Webb's Freemason's Monitor) and Joseph Smith's alleged finding of the gold plates, urim and thummim, liahona, sword of Laban and brass plates in the side of a hill. I wanted to know if anybody had heard about this and what has been said about it. And I wondered why it seemed that the subject was never brought up again by historians of the Mormon History Association type. In response, I was referred to Reed C. Durham's address in 1974 to the MHA (which I had already read, and which, in fact, was what prompted my question in the first place).

Well, since then, I came across the following at the University of Utah library. Maybe many of you have already heard about this, but if not, I thought you would find it interesting. It kind of answers my question as to why nothing more seems to have been said about it. I simply can't understand how Durham could have raised questions like he asked in that presidential address (to have done the research and come face to face with the implications) and yet continue to believe in Joseph Smith and the BOM.

Here it is:

J. Willard Marriott Library, Manuscripts Division
University of Utah
You are the 1068th person to visit this page since January 14, 1998.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This inventory was prepared by Lisa Townsend in November 1997.
The Reed C. Durham Papers (1974 and 1977) consists of a typescript of a presidential address, "Is There No Hope for the Widow's Son," given by Reed C. Durham at the Mormon History Association convention in Nauvoo, Illinois, on April 20, 1974. Two letters (1977 and undated) are also included. The subject of the address is the relationship between Mormonism and Masonry. Masonic symbols on Mormon temples, Masonic connections with the priesthood, Joseph Smith's possession of a "magical Masonic medallion," and the Masonic Enoch Legend (from which the title of this address is taken) are some topics discussed in the address. The letters in the collection concern Durham's address. One was written by Durham expressing his concern that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) may view his address as contrary to the views of the LDS Church. The other, written to Durham from David Buerger, expresses Buerger's interest in obtaining more information concerning Durham's address. A reply from Durham is written on the second page, telling Buerger he has been asked by church authorities "to do no more with the subject again" and "not to release information." This collection was donated by Ben Bennion in 1974 and an unrecorded source in 1977. Size: 1 folder.

In case you haven't read the 1974 address, here it is:

Related link: http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/widowson.htm
Modified by 2112 at Thu, Jul 03, 2003, 11:34:12

| Recommend | Alert

Previous | Next | Current page

Replies to this message

many

Re: "Is There no Help for the Widow's Son" -- 2112 Top of thread Archive

Posted by: The Vines ^Ž
07/03/2003, 19:01:03

Author Profile Mail author

Not many no about these borrowings, but those that do actually use the parallel to bolster their religious claims.
LDS, especially the FARMS brand, love to find parallels in antiquity with the LDS story. The Enoch legend from Masonry is viewed as proof of the fact that God works in patterns, and that Joseph Smith is the real thing... didn't you know that?
In LDS religion, if its possible, then it happened.
TV

| Recommend | Alert Where am I? Original Top of thread Previous | Next | Current page

Re: many

Re: many -- The Vines Top of thread Archive

Posted by: johny ^Ž
07/04/2003, 00:14:39

Author Profile Mail author

I want to ask TV if you are LDS or ex LDS or some other status?
I am not sure as you seem to border on LDS at timesd and then other times I see a definite siding to the views that oppose the church , but never blatant I ask in sincerity.:)

| Recommend | Alert Where am I? Original Top of thread Previous | Next | Current page

answer

Re: Re: many -- johny Top of thread Archive

Posted by: The Vines ^Ž
07/04/2003, 08:38:13

Author Profile Mail author

I am actually a fairly active non-believing LDS. I oppose things in the Church that I find morally wrong. If asked I will share my opinion in Church, but usually keep any comment quite benign to not disturb. I believe that people can find answers for themselves and usually I contribute by stressing directions more than giving answers.
For example in our Quorum meeting recently we spoke about Free Agency and I do not believe in it AT ALL. So I asked some pretty hard questions and made some pretty hard statements at a philosophical level. An interesting discussion came about.
In another class recently we spoke about the destruction of the wicked at the Second Coming. I made comments about not understanding where the loving Christ was in that mentality. Again an interesting discussion followed. Of course, many try to apologize, and in so doing open themselves up to questions that they would not expect. A discussion can become quite interesting. I don't take on an opposing attitude but rather take on the role of the one "not understanding" and ask questions aimed at highlighting aspects in doctrine that I believe need to be pondered.
Why do I partcipate? Because my wife is a believer, and my little girls go, so I do to. I will not impose my beliefs on them, but rather will support them and let them make their own choices. Life has put me in a place. My whole family is LDS, and I have chosen to make a difference in my sphere of influence and that includes the LDS Church.
Do Church leaders know about my beliefs? Absolutely. I had a 2 hour discussion with my Bishop a few weeks ago. They are actually very supportive. The Bishop was just worried about my making a lot of my objections public in meetings, and I told him that I don't do that, and that I will answer a specific question but otherwise would be neutral during Church meetings, where I feel it is inappropriate to debate Church beliefs. People don't go to Church to debate their beliefs... I don't think its the right setting. Being one that knows more about Church doctrine then the majority, I tend to answer a lot of questions about Church Doctrine.
TV

| Recommend | Alert Where am I? Original Top of thread Previous | | Current page

Back to the forum